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Text File | 1990-01-09 | 30.8 KB | 855 lines

(Ted) Did everyone read the press release that Speiser uploaded. GA (DON) Hi ya all, I got a letter from Jim on our board here stating that the networks should be releasing the info on the Gulf Breezes sometime sat or today. no word yet. (Ted) Yes. I called th Gulf Breezes Sentinel on Friday, but they refused to give out any info at this time. They are however, sending me a copy of all articles they have published to date on the subject. (DRAX) Greetings, Earthlings (DON) Hi guy. (Ted) Well speak of the !$#@@**. Hi Jim. (DRAX) Hi Ted. Sorry, what were you talking about? (Ted) Gulf Breezes and the news releasee you uploaded earlier. Do you have any further info on the subject. (DRAX) Yup. <evil snicker> (Ted) Don't keep us waiting. DUmp it SPeiser! (DRAX) Haha.... (DRAX) From what I've been able to put together a press conference took place on Friday, attended by, among others, Walt Andrus, Donald Ware (FL MUFON Dir.) and a couple of investigators. I understand the main percipient was NOT there, still wants to remain semi-anonymous. According to Bruce Maccabee, a special camera was sent by MUFON, registered and sealed, to be used by the fellow. on his next photographic outing. He did so, and, as Bruce says, "There's something there....". The camera, according to Walt, was a special 3-D model (anyone know anything like that?). He has also passed a lie detector test. That's about all I know now. (Gerry) I know what 3-d cameras are, if that's what you're asking. (DRAX) Can such things be disguised as regular 35mm? (Gerry) I'd think it unlikely, as they have two lenses. (Ted) I have a 3-D camera but it is a slide type taking two slides at once. I believe Dale is next. (Dale) Pass. (Ted) We are using formal CO rules tonight. If you have a question or comment type a "?" or "!" I get to you in order. Ok DBC your up GA (DBC) Ok. Jim, what about this "amazing" vidio that was viewed by Andrus and Hopkins? (DRAX) All I know is, its reportedly "amazing." I haven't seen it so I can't tell you much. (Ted) ok Don Youre up. (DON) Jim, I've kept my eye on the tube all weekend! where is the news reprot? (Ted) Jim repy? (DRAX) Good kveschin. I think all you need do is refer to my recent exchange in JFORUM to see that we in ufology may have cried wolf once too often, and now that perhaps we have a real wolf in the fold, Big Media is putting us on permanent ignore. (Ted) The sky is falling ! GA (Ted) JIM, you got more out of Walt A. than I did. When I talked to him earlier this week he told me they had a special camera but wouldn't tell me what kind. If it is the same 3-D type camera that I have then I doubt they will ge much. You have to be real close to get much of a three D effect. (DRAX) Ok, I don't know for sure what type of camera it is, Walt told me 3-D and also told me not to spill the beans on that, but Bruce told me that he had taken a picture with it, so I figured it was time. Walt may not have described the camer properly, however. GA (Gerry) Even though you don't have much 3d effect you still may get important differences in registration of images which can turn up under analysis. (Ted) Yes, thats true. It would give the ability to measure the distance to the object within limits. (DRAX) A few points should be made. Its important that the guy made the effort to use the camera. it was registered. That indicates, at least, that he doesn't fear "exposure" as a hoax. Its also the first time a UFO percipient has ever used a registered camera provided by investigators. Bruce Maccabee is ufology's leading photo-analyst, and while he has not passed final judgement on the photos, he remains cautiously (oh so cautiously) enthusiastic. "There's something there" from Bruce is QUITE a bit of enthusiasm, I assure you. (DON) Ok, Jim, two questions. First, was the half hour documentry aired by the local Fla. station, and next, the witness are you inferring that the object kept returning to the same area to be photographed? (and what about Budd?) (DRAX) As far as I know, the show was aired, and John Lear has arranged for a tape to be FedExed to him. I should hear from him Monday. I don't know if the object returned to the same location each time, but this has been an ongoing series of sightings, yes. And what about Budd? He's also enthusiastic. (DON) I refer to Budds area of expertise-abductions-any word? ga (Ted) I understand that Budd is VERY enthusiastic about the case and feels that the abduction is a certainty. The abductee at last word was unwilling to be hypnmotized at this time a little fearful of the hypnosis, I understand. Jim did you want to add more. (DRAX) Beyond that he suspects a series of abductions, no. Yes, I think we should just say that NOTHING, of course, is a true certainty at this time, and that enthusiasm <> endorsement. But it certainly is looking very good so far to my knowledge, nothing has yet turned up to throw a bad light on the case. (DBC) Jim, do I understand correctly that members of the media in gulf breezes have seen the craft? (DRAX) I don't think I've heard that. That is certainly true in Texarkana, but not to my limited knowledge in Gulf Breeze. (DBC) I find it interesting that there have been so many examples of media people who have actually witnessed these things certainlly the case in the Hudson valley as well as Arkansas. What bothers me is why doesn' Big Media seem to have any faith in Small Media? (Ted) I think you can get the answer from the thread going on under the subject "JFORM and UFOs".) They are just plain not interested in anything that does not have "researchable" material that can hold up in the public scrutiny of fellows like Phil Klass. (DRAX) It looks like we're going to have to wait for Sam Donaldson to be abudcted and do a live feed from aboard a beamship before the subject gets the attention it deserves speaking of Klass, I had dinner with him the other night. GA (Ted) Ok jim, what did he have to say and did you need any bicarb afterwards. GA (Dale) Traitor (DON) THE BIG BUG-A-BOO, HUH?? (DRAX) "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" --Don Corleone ... I always need bicarb after eating in my restaurant. He knew nothing of Texarkana, and very little of FL. after I described a little of what I knew of the latter, his reaction was basically, "Well, if you believe in the govt. cover-up theory, you would think the Air Force would be down there confiscating photos and hushing up witnesses. The fact that they aren't must prove to you that they think its a hoax." He had some other things to say, most of which left such a bad taste in my mouth I'd rather not repeat them. GA (Ted) Jim, do you think that Klass really believes all the theories ne puts out. (I was going to say CRAP but thought better of it.) ga (DON) manure also fits (DRAX) Yes, I do. I don't believe he is in the employ of the govt because I'd like to think the govt. would spend my tax dollars on a better debunker. (Ted) Ok, I think we have been ignoring DON and for that I beg forgiveness. Ok DON you're up. (DBC) Ted, Neil. is here. (DON) Thank you. Ok, I think that DBC made an execellt point about the large medias. I find it hard to believe that potentially the largest story of this centuray could be ignored in this manner so I think that there could be another reason for them to ignore this story. Anyone else think so? ga (Ted) Neil it appears you have generated a lot of interest here tonight. Bring us up to date on the Lake Erie triangle. (Neil) Ted, the Erie Triangle is not what it is called. The Lake ontario triangle is where the Triangle is, but many sightings do occur on Lake Erie. This will take a minute of everyone's timw, but to answer John.'s ?, if you go to the public library, the U.S. Geological Survey Team has a U.s. Gov't photo(infrared) that shows the structure under Lake Ontario. As far as the magazine name, I discussed this with my team & they said no way at giving the name out over the air, but if I were to meet you in person or talk on the phone, that's a different case. (Ted) Neil, I tried to call you on the Phone this week. The operator said that either you didn't exist or that you had an unlisted number. I figure the MIB had gotten to you! I tried to get your number through information in Rochester. If you number is unlisted please send it to me via EMAIL. (Neil) Sounds great!!! Yes, it is unlisted...I have to or owe you a reply, but you will get my # before I exit the forum tonight! (Joe) Thanks, just a fast comment on Big Media. Check out the March 5 TV Guide, under Jeers on Page 23, its a criticism of Network News for SOFT stories (like UFOs). (DBC) Neil, you were trying to give us some clues on the name of the mag but about all I could come up with was Rand McNally with emphasis on the RAND. Is this close? also could you tell us what section of the lake this "ufo base" is suppose (DBC) to be located.?....and finally since you say you have seen the craft over 300 times, do you have a secret for how to locate them or a sense of when and where to look? (Neil) I wonder!!! (Ted) ga NEIL (Ted) Neil GA (Neil) The approximate location is between NiagAra-on- the-Lake & Toronto,Ca & it is about 15 mile(approx.) from the N-o-t-L Shoreline......GA (DRAX) I hafta git going, but wanted to drop in a couple of bulletins first, we're working on getting an online press conference for the Convention Center on the Gulf thing will try to get Bruce Maccabee I guess thats about it...take it easy, yall, its bowling time! (Ted) Does this mean you're coming back!!!<looking hopeful!> GA (DRAX) Some day, son, some day not right away tho. GA (Neil) Drax, I wasn't on earlier...whats the 'GULF THING???GA (DRAX) 'splain it to him, guys...I gotta dash. Bye! (Ted) Neil read the DL10 Database in a recent addition. (Last two days) for further info. ga (Neil) Thanks, Ted!!!!GA (Randy) Anybody know what happened in Texarkana....I was about to go down there?? (Ted) There has been a recent UFO series of sightings there. Much like those of the Hudson valley variety. GA (Randy) Apparently about 500 people have reported seeing a vehicle like the Hudson Valley craft?? (Ted) Neil. john abrams had a question on the board about the gov't document. Perhaps john would like to bring it up here? GA (John) neil, what is the name of the magazine? tell me more about the photo?ga (Neil) John, please understand this I cannot reveal the name over the air waves, but in person or on telephone....GA (Ted) Neil, we would also like to know more about the gov't photo that you have... (Neil) it specifically shows a long... (John) neil will you c i will send you my phone no. over easyplex call me collect (Neil) Sounds fine with me but near the end of this CO session. OK (Ted) the govt photo did it have a number on it. GA (Neil) NO, we found it was not necessary for being published.GA (Randy) Neil....Did your photo have any government identification numbers on it, or the specific name of any government agency??? (Neil) The U.S. Geological Survey Team is the one that has access to 3 diffent sattelites!!!...GA (Randy) Did the photo have the terms "LANDSAT", SEASAT", or any similar nomenclature stamped on the back or front??? (Neil) The original photo from U.S.Geo had something similar to SEASAT...GA (Randy) Does the photo have any U.S. Geologi? (DBC) you were about to describe what's in the photo please continue.ga (Neil) The photo shows a structure under water that comes out the Western part of toronto and purtrudes approx. 15 miles out. Our team check out everything possible even Toronto Water Works & they know of no such structure!!!GA (Ted) Has you're team sent out any underwater divers? I know a little about the waters there enough to know that if you're seeing a structure under water then it can't be too deep. The waters there are just not that clear. (Neil) Our team can not find anyone with the guts to go out there at night when the most activity takes place...There have been many planes and) small watercraft that have disappeared over the years...Any Volunteers? (Ted) Neil, I would think that the time to go out would be during the day when it is easier to see what is under the water. From what I remember of the waters in that area the structure couldn't be more that 50 feet or less and still be able to see it under the best of condtions. (Neil) That is one thing our team can't say;is how deep the structure is in the water I do know it is quite deep. Cousteau's son had his air line cut' by something' & he died in those waters. What cut the air line who knows. This happened not too many years back. (Randy) Yes, first a comment and then 2 questions for Neil. The comment is that satellite imagery does not necessarily illustrate depth or visibility conditions in water...the questions for Neil are 1). Do you have the U.S.Geological Survey Photo Numbers for the prints in your possession??...and 2) Are the prints primarily in red/brown tones, or in green/blue tones, or do they appear to be "regular" color photographs??? (Neil) The closest is 'red/brown' tones...I have a photo in my posession that is cropped for detail and unfrtunately the public labrary has the U.S.Geo photos under refernce...It frustrates me when these obstacles are always in the way!!!GA (Gerry) IR may not scatter at the same rate in the murk as does visible light. Anybody know? Also the small-scale detail may be lost before the large- scale structure. (Ted) IR doesn't scatter as much but does get absorbed faster. GA (Gerry) Ok. Just thought I'd bring it up. ga (Ted) Good question. GA (Neil) Ted, please be more discriptive... (Gerry) But even if absorbed, isn't it re-transmitted, rather sort of diffused? ga (Ted) I'm not sure what you mean by re-transmitted. GA (Gerry) Only thinking that the general temperature of the water above the object may be changed by its IR radiation. If it were, it would show up in IR photos. (Ted) If the water is warm it will give off IR radiation do we know that the photos were of IR nature? GA (Randy) YES....!!! (Ted) Then I guess the resolution all depends on how deep and how "hot" the object is also how much energy absorbing material there is. oK Randy anything more. GA (Randy) Yes...I have to ask Neil if the images were digitized, that is, consisting of small squares, or true linear IR photographs, I.E., no small squares?? (Neil) True Linear IR photos!!!...Ted, I am serious when I mentioned about any takers with a good size watercraft that will go out on the lake around dusk...GA (Ted) Anyone out there with a craft willing to go out in these waters? If not.... (DBC) Not me thankyou!!!!! (Ted) Neil why don't you post a message on the message board. (Joe) IR would only show heat differential, what is at the land end of the structure and is the structrure hot or cold?? .. ga (Neil) Good idea, Ted!!! (Randy) Right!!! (Neil) Light differiental is also involved with IR photos!GA (DBC) Neil, from what position have you been observing the entries/exits into the underwater base) and have you estimated how often the entries/exits occur? (Neil) It used to be almost every Wed. and Sunday nights...somestimes a person will sit there for 4 hours and in the last 15 minutes of that 4 hours, everything happens or it could be weeks...Ted, I would like to make a statement on the photos...GA (John) sit where (Ted) Ok NEIL GA (Neil) first, John., Niagara-on-the-lake, Canada) looking toward Toronto,Canada...Ted, The IR photos from the sattelite match our land triaglation perfectly of where the base is!GA (John) neil, you sit and watch these craft entering and leaving the structure from 15 miles away? (Neil) Approximately...I would rather say 12 miles away to give an exact figure, John!!!GA (John) how can you tell exactly what you are observing from that distance? how large are the craft? (Neil) Answer to first ?: through binoculars,camera but actual shape(s) are Lights with shape & there are many variation...Our team is not totally positive if there is anything else besides the lights we see at dusk & nighttime. There is one daylight picture that is totally different from the craft we see at night...as far as sizes, from 50 feet wide & up. GA (Randy) Thanks Ted....I have to check out in a few minutes, but just wanted to mention that I will check the current generation sat data on this area during the week, and let everybody know next week if any of the digital stuff shown anything like Neil describes in the area of Niagra-on-the-Lake. It sounds like he has come upon an older linear IR camera image of the area...some of these types of images have problems...I wish I had the U.S Geo area numbers and would appreciate Neil providing those?>?? (Neil) Randy 1977 (Randy) Does Neil have coordinates or U.S. Geo numbers??? (Neil) The U.S. Geo might refer you to the public library...how does it go...roand & round the uokjukmkl if you know what I mean!!!GA (Ted) How about ther numbers Neil? GA (Randy) I don't have that problem, Neil!! (Neil) Public Library should provide recent #'S. I'm glad someone does not have that problem...GA (Ted) Am I lost or are we talking in riddles? GA (Neil) We are in the conference room...heh,heh!!GA (Gerry) First, a question to Neil: What motions do you observe? Vertical into and away from the horizon or something else? Second, I used to work at UC Berkeley Space Sciences Lab where ...Second is not for you neil, first is. Second is, SSL had a large remote sensing project, which could possibly have relevant photos. Also know some people on the SETI project at Ames who might be friendly enough to look up whatever info on these photos might exist there. Any feeling about whether it would be worthwhile renewing old contacts over this?ga anybody (Neil) YES!!! (DBC) definitely gerry. (Gerry) Ok, I will do so.ga (Neil) Leave me E-Mail on results,if possible. There are many variations to flight of these craft...e.g.- leaf falling effect swirling,from direction to direction you name it...especially with using color infrared slide film...it does wonders!!!GA (Joe) Two quickies, first, I do not understand the magazine part of the discussion. second, are the photos being published? (Neil) Which photos:the IR phoros about the structure of ufos..GA (Joe) your photos (Neil) YES. Some have been previously published in local area newspapers, but a book will be released in the early 1990's. GA (John) neil, i think that joe was asking aboout the magazine that you mentioned last week will you at least tell me if it is a nationwide publication or is it some regional or local type of publication i still do not understand why you withold its name from us, publicly. (DBC) More clues Neil.ga (Neil) Weren't you the one earlier that mentioned the name of a publication??? Keep it to yourself!GA (DBC) yes.ga (Neil) Yes!!!... (Ted) Which edition? GA (Neil) A different way of saying it!!! 1977 (Ted) Which page. GA (Neil) All the Great Lakes!!! (Ted) I guess that lets the cat out of the bag! GA (Neil) In a different perspective, I might say!!!GA (Ted) DO all editions subsequent to 1977 have it or just that year? GA (Neil) Just that year at excellent quality!!! (Ted) You heard it first here Folks! GA (John) now i want neil to again describe exactly what to look for in the magazine photo.ga (Neil) A long structure under the lake coming from Torontos east end, under the lake! You can't miss it!!!GA (John) ok i'll check (Neil) TED! Could you please leave me mail with your home #.GA (Ted) Sure Be gald to. I will be gone tommorrow but will be at work on Tuesday. The Wed I will be in Ann ARbor but back Thurs. I will leave number in EMAIL. GA (Neil) When do you feel you will get off of here, tonight???GA (Ted) Shortly. GA (Ted) Like 10 Min. GA (Neil) If possible, Toight.GA (Ted) It's busy now. GA (DBC) I was going to ask Neil about his abduction studies, but perhaps its getting too late to get into that.ga (Neil) Well, The abduction case correlate with Lake Ontario & Erie, but it is a little late this evening to start, I feel!!!GA (DBC) how about next week?ga (Ted) Good Idea! GA (Neil) As a part of the conference, sure (Ted) Can you make it next week Neil GA (Neil) I like to give other people a chance to talk, also! Next Week, it is!!!GA (Ted) GREAT, see you all then I must be logging off now. Nite All. GA (John) nite guysnite (Joe) goodnight (DBC) nite Ted, Nite all. (John) nite guys (Neil) Ted, you will hear from me shortly!......and John, thanks for the E-Mail. Greatly appreciated!!!nite all.GA (DBC) nite Neil (Neil) nite dbc (John) nitenite (Gerry) good night (Neil) exiting...........